Tyler Leister:This is Tyler Leister, I'm sitting down with Len Bielenberg and we are going to discuss some questions about the 1960s. So I guess my first question would be what were your early 20s like do you remember your biggest concerns or goals at the time?
Len Bielenberg:In my early 20s? OK when I got out of the service in 1946, I was in my early twenties then.
TL:So in your early 20s you were in the military and you just got out of school?
LB:No, actually I went into the service when I was 17 years old, and one of the reasons I did is that I volunteered. I didn't want to go into the army, I had problems with surgery when I was a young child. I think I had a touch of polio, and I didn't want to go into the army and have to march, and this was getting toward the end of the war and there was a lot of recruiting going on and you didn't have too much of an excuse for not going into the service.
So, I volunteered and I went into the Navy and I was in there for a little while, and then I retired from the Navy. In the summer of 1946, I matriculated at the University of Idaho and I signed up for a business law degree. And after four years I acquired a business law degree and then after two more years I acquired a law degree, which at that time was a doctor's degree. And what else would you like to know at this time?
TL:So beyond graduating what other goals did you have at the time, in your profession like what sort of jobs were you looking for?
LB:Well, my goal at the time was number one, get a job because I grew up as a poor person. But probably the best meal and the best I ever ate in my life was when I was in the military because my folks were extremely poor and I was born, you know, before the depression and I went through the depression and so mostly everything was up for me. I mean being in the service, I did not get hurt, I did not get captured, I came out it was really a blessing.
The fact that I was there helped me to get into school because otherwise I probably would have not been able to pay my way. As a matter of fact, then my help ran out, my military help ran out, and in my last years I had actually three jobs, I had a job at Hay's Cafe for my meal, and I worked at the liquor store on weekends. Oh yes, then I worked part time at the law school at the library. But I made it through and what else would you like to know at this time?
TL:What do you think was the best aspect of the 1960s?
LB:The fact that everything was up for me. I was a poor boy, I finally got my education upon graduation from law school and I was offered a position as an assistant attorney general under Robert Smylie. That was a nice paying job, it was an income for the first time in my life other than the military, that is steady income.
After spending 2 1/2 years in the attorney general's office, then I came to Moscow at the invitation of one of the local attorneys and joined the law firm. And it became Felton and Bielenberg, and the person who invited me to join him was Tom Felton. So up to that point it was very good and they just kept on getting better.
TL:Is there anything that you wish American society still possessed that existed in the 1960s that doesn't exist today?
LB:Could you give me an example?
TL:Yeah, like perhaps family life. Do you think family life was a little bit closer in the 1960s versus something like today? Where you could argue that families today aren't as close knit as they were back then?
LB:Well I think that is true, and one of the reasons it's true is that many females did not work outside the home in those days. A mother was a person who stayed home with the children, that is assuming they had children, and it didn't make any difference whether it was one or a half a dozen. That's where she stayed and the man was the person that was out making a living.
And then of course as time went on, then ladies and women went into working outside the home and putting money in the coffers just like the husband did, so that was certainly changed. And of course, a lot of women today, as you well know, do not work continuously twenty-four hours in the home. A lot of them nowadays of course are doing that in one respect, in that they're working out of their home on the computer or that type of thing.
TL:My other question is what music or artists were you listening to during the 1960s?
LB:Oh probably Johnny Cash.
TL:Did you listen to Hank Williams?
LB:Oh yeah, oh absolutely. Any of those, in fact Roy Rogers. I was a cowboy music fan, in fact I still am. Although I did like that Irish singer, I can't think of his name but I like Irish songs too. Even though I'm German, I like Irish songs.
TL:Do you think music was primarily about partying or about social change during the 1960s?
LB:Well, I don't think it had too much to do about social change, so it must have been about partying. If I have a choice.
TL:Were there any famous figures, political or otherwise, that stood out to you during the 1960s? And why did they stand out to you?
LB:I can't think of any off hand, can you mention a few that were out there doing things at the time?
TL:Yeah, so it doesn't have to be political, it could be cultural figures too that were just very present in the 1960s that stood out to you?
LB:Can't think of anyone special, I mean things were better after the war of course. I think everyone was doing quite well, but the politics weren't as they are today. I think the political parties were generally trying to tell you what they had accomplished and what they wished to accomplish rather than telling what the other party didn't accomplish. I think the political parties were more friendly back in those days, I mean they each had their problem they just didn't accuse each other of fraud or bad politics.
TL:Do you have a favorite president during the 1960s?
LB:Well I'm not sure who was then? Was Ronald Reagan then?
TL:No, so in the 60's we have Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson, Nixon, in the early seventies. Out of those three who would you say you preferred?
LB:Well my brother liked Nixon, now I know he got kicked out which today would be a minor offense, a minor offense. I can't believe that he was kicked out and the current ones aren't, I mean there's just no way to measure these two. Anyway, I thought he was a decent president, yeah he screwed up and he didn't do the right thing but that wasn't all that terrible I didn't think. That would just be a minor offense these days.
TL:Exactly yeah, it'd be a minor scandal.
LB:Yeah, not enough to kick him out.
TL:Flew away on a helicopter and what not.
What social movements were you aware of, at the time, when you were living in the 1960s?
LB:I can't think of any just off hand, I must not have been involved in any.
TL:How did Moscow react in the 1960s? Were there any demonstrations for Civil Rights in Moscow that you remember?
LB:No, people didn't do that back in those days. Not that I remember. There weren't any gatherings on Main Street, or marching up and down, and going to the park or whatever. People were decent people, they really were. Not that all the people today are or aren't, but they were a more friendly group. They had their differences of course, nevertheless they were more friendly, they got along better.
TL:So, what were your thoughts on the Vietnam War?
LB:Well obviously I'm no expert on that, but I do think we were in a war that we shouldn't have been in. I respect the fellows and the people that were involved, they did what they were ordered to do but unfortunately, I don't think we should have been involved.
TL:I know that you sir are a veteran, do you think the Vietnam War changed at all how you felt about America as a global leader?
LB:No, in that respect I just had my own personal opinion. I think a lot of people felt that way, that we just should not have been involved. We shouldn't have been in either one of those over there, now of course I'm talking as a layman, I don't know all the background. I don't know really why we were really involved in the first place, I have a general idea but in so many of those situations you don't know all the details so you make decisions from what is pumped out to you from the media.
TL:My next question is, did you ever witness specific acts of discrimination against people for their race, gender, or sexual orientation? Because typically when someone thinks about the 1960s, you automatically think of the Civil Rights movement. You kind of paint a picture in your head, did you ever personally witness any acts of discrimination during the 1960s?
TL:My next question is do you think social life in Moscow was shaped by racial attitudes at all?
LB:No I do not. People in Moscow got along nicely with each other, different religions, different politics, but they got along well, I think. We didn't have any fights to speak of about religion, sometimes at the bar they had fights, but it wasn't about religion.
TL:I know that there is a pretty large Native American presence here in the Palouse area, were there any racial attitudes towards native people at all?
LB:Native people? Like Indians and so forth?
LB:Of course we don't have many Indians in Latah county, down in Nez Perce county they do. I don't remember any discrimination against those people, of course you always have some oddballs out there who are looking for some way to sour themselves on somebody because it seems to be the way they live. But people in general, certainly no, Latah county people invited anybody and everybody .
TL:What has changed the most here in Moscow since the 1960s?
TL:Just in any aspect, culturally, politically, the size of the town.
LB:The size of the town obviously, I don't know the figures but I would say that Moscow is at least three times as large as it was in 1960. The politics have changed a little bit, this used to be a Republican county, and now it's mixed but probably leaning a little bit toward Democrats. But otherwise, I can't think of any change. I don't think the people of Latah County discriminated against black people, or Indians, or Jewish, or Chinese, you name it.
We used to have a Chinese village out here south of town and that was a business that a lot of people went out there because they liked Chinese food. And as a matter of fact, the people that owned it were Chinese and I know of the fellow that owned the place, he had a lot of friends and they would just go out there and, well anyway, they would play games of some kind or the other and they would just get together and be very friendly. So, I think the people of Latah County were very generous in their attitude.
TL:My last and final question is, what big cultural changes did you see between the 1960s and the 1970s?
LB:Well I might have to think about that for a bit. Now cultural, would more women going to work, would that be one?
LB:Definitely, mothers, wives, and just women in general, were spending lots more time out in the community doing various jobs. And of course as we are right now, a lot of these folks are spending time from their home on the Internet working and some of these ladies may have a family but they're doing two things; they're working and they're also taking care of their family because there's home. Which is kind of double duty and I don't know how they handle it but they do it, they do it.
I think people are retiring earlier than they used to, I can think of a few individuals who after 20 years that's it. And they spend the rest of the time living and enjoying life without working, without going to the store or the shop every morning. So in that respect, you know people, it seemed like they used to work until their early 70s and now I don't think all that many people are working until they're in their late 60s. Like I mentioned I know several people who put in 20 years, and that's it and they enjoy life. They might even take up a second type of job or something they really enjoyed better than the type of work they did before they retired.
TL:Awesome, sweet. Well thank you so much for sitting down and answering some questions. I really appreciate your time sir.